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Rudy Giuliani
Transcript of Rudy Giuliani during the third Republican presidential primary debate in New Hampshire (2008 election) (June 05 2007)
Mayor Giuliani, same question to you. Knowing what you know right now, was it a good decision? RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: Absolutely the right thing to do. It's unthinkable that you would leave Saddam Hussein in charge of Iraq and be able to fight the war on terror. And the problem is that we see Iraq in a vacuum. Iraq should not be seen in a vacuum. Iraq is part of the overall terrorist war against the United States. The problem the Democrats make is they're in denial. That's why you hear things like you heard in the debate the other night, that, you know, Iran really isn't dangerous; it's 10 years away from nuclear weapons. Iran is not 10 years away from nuclear weapons. And the danger to us is not just missiles. The danger to us is a state like Iran handing nuclear weapons over to terrorists. So it has to be seen in that light. And we have to be successful in Iraq.
BLITZER: What do you think, Mayor? Do you think, if you were president of the United States and it came down to Iran having a nuclear bomb, which you say is unacceptable, you would authorize the use of tactical nuclear weapons? GIULIANI: Part of the premise of talking to Iran has to be that they have to know very clearly that it is unacceptable to the United States that they have nuclear power. I think it could be done with conventional weapons, but you can't rule out anything and you shouldn't take any option off the table. And during the debate the other night, the Democrats seemed to be back in the 1990s. They don't seem to have gotten beyond the Cold War. Iran is a threat, a nuclear threat, not just because they can deliver a nuclear warhead with missiles. They're a nuclear threat because they are the biggest state sponsor of terrorism and they can hand nuclear materials to terrorists. And we just saw it just last week in New York, an attempt by Islamist terrorists to attack JFK airport; three weeks ago, an attempt to attack Fort Dix. These are real problems. This war is not a bumper sticker. This war is a real war.
BLITZER: Thank you, Mayor. (APPLAUSE) BLITZER: Mayor Giuliani, what do you think the consequences for the nation are if this immigration plan proposed by President Bush goes through? GIULIANI: The problem with this immigration plan is it has no real unifying purpose. It's a typical Washington mess. It's everybody compromises -- four or five compromises. And the compromises leave you with the following conclusion: The litmus test you should have for legislation is, is it going to make things better? And when you look at these compromises, it is quite possible it will make things worse. The organizing purpose should be that our immigration laws should allow us to identify everyone who is in this country that comes here from a foreign country. They should have a tamper-proof I. D. card. It should be in a database that allows you to figure out who they are, why they're here, make sure they're not illegal immigrants coming here for a bad purpose, and then to be able to throw out the ones who are not in that database. We can do that. Credit card companies. . .
BLITZER: Thank you.
GIULIANI: ... take care of data that is greater than that.
BLITZER: Mayor Giuliani, there was some news here today. A Catholic bishop in Rhode Island said some words about your position on abortion, suggesting that it was similar to Pontius Pilate's personal opposition to Jesus Christ's crucifixion, but allowing it to happen anyway. How does that make you feel when you hear words like that from a Catholic bishop? GIULIANI: Well, Catholic bishop -- any religion (inaudible).
BLITZER: That's the lightning that's having an effect on our system.
GIULIANI: I know. (LAUGHTER) I guess I'm here by myself. Look, for someone who went to parochial schools all his life, this is a very frightening thing that's happening right now. (LAUGHTER) But the reality is I respect, you know, the opinion of Catholic (inaudible) and religious leaders of all kinds. Religion is very important to me. It's a very important part of my life. But ultimately, as (inaudible) been in public life most of my life and taken oaths of office to enforce the law, I've got to make the decisions that I think are the right ones in a country like ours. And my view on abortion is that it's wrong, but that ultimately government should not be enforcing that decision on a woman. That is my view that I -- I consult my religion. I consult my reading of the Constitution. I consult my views of what I think are important in a pluralistic society, and the reality that we have to respect the fact that there are people that are equally as religious, equally as moral, that make a different decision about this, and should government put them in jail? BLITZER: FAHEY: This is for Mayor Giuliani. Sea levels around the world are rising. Average temperatures are increasing. A U. N. report written by scientists from 113 countries recently said that climate change is very likely man-made and may affect us for centuries to come. Is science wrong on global warming? And what, if any, steps would you take as president to address the issue of climate change? GIULIANI: I think we have to accept the view that scientists have, that there is global warming, and that human operation, human condition contributes to that. And the fact is that there is a way to deal with it and to address it in a way that we can also accomplish energy independence, which we need as a matter of national security. It's frustrating and really dangerous for us to see money going to our enemies because we have to buy oil from certain countries. We should be supporting all the alternatives. We need a project similar to putting a man on the moon. That project started with Eisenhower. It was carried out by Kennedy and then Johnson and then Nixon. And that was two Democrats and two Republicans working (inaudible) Democrats working in the national interest.
GIULIANI: And I think we should rely on the judgment of our commanders in a situation like this. They know what's disruptive and what's not. And at a time of war, you don't make fundamental changes like this. Thank you, Mayor.
BLITZER: Mayor Giuliani, recently we've learned that several talented trained linguists -- Arabic speakers, Farsi speakers, Urdu speakers -- trained by the U. S. government to learn those languages to help us in the war on terrorism, were dismissed from the military because they announced they were gays or lesbians. Is that, in your mind, appropriate? GIULIANI: This is not the time to deal with disruptive issues like this. Back in 1994 we went through this. And it created a tremendous amount of disruption. Colin Powell, I think, was still the head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff before he left at the beginning of the Clinton administration. He came to the view that this was a good policy. And I think in time of war, in a time where we're trying to deal with this transition to a new kind of warfare that we have to be fighting -- and we haven't gotten all the way there yet. We need a hybrid army, we need to look at nation-building as part of what we have to teach our military. I don't think this would be the right time to raise these issues.
BLITZER: Thank you.
GIULIANI: I think the sentence was way out of line. I mean, the sentence was grossly excessive in a situation in which, at the beginning, the prosecutor knew who the leak was. . .
BLITZER: So, yes or no, would you pardon him? GIULIANI: . . . and he knew a crime wasn't committed. I recommended over a thousand pardons to President Reagan when I was associate attorney general. I would see if it fit the criteria for pardon. I'd wait for the appeal. I think what the judge did today argues more in favor of a pardon because. . .
BLITZER: Thank you.
GIULIANI: . . . this is excessive punishment.
BLITZER: All right.
GIULIANI: When you consider -- I've prosecuted 5,000 cases.
BLITZER: I'm trying to get a yes or no. (LAUGHTER) GIULIANI: Well, this is a very important issue. This is a very, very important -- a man's life is at stake. And the reality is, this is an incomprehensible situation. They knew who the leak was. GIULIANI: And ultimately, there was no underlying crime involved.
Let me bring Mayor Giuliani in. I don't know if you consider yourself a neocon, but go ahead and respond to what Congressman Paul said. (LAUGHTER) GIULIANI: Michael, thank you very much for serving us, and thank your family for their tremendous sacrifice. I'd like to put it in a slightly different context. I believe that your service for us and your brother's sacrifice is one of the reasons we're safe now in the United States. I believe that this terrorist war began way back in the 1970s. They attacked us in 1993 in New York. They attacked us again in 2001 in a horrible way. And I believe that what we're doing in Iraq, if we can get it right, is going to help reduce the risk for this country. And if we get it wrong, this is going to be much, much worse for us. And part of what we have to do and we haven't done right is take on that responsibility of nation-building. We created that responsibility for ourselves when we overthrew Saddam Hussein, which we did very effectively. It was one of the greatest military actions in American history, overthrowing Saddam Hussein. But we didn't accomplish the second step. People can only embrace democracy when they have an orderly existence. And we have to help provide that. We didn't want that role, but it is our role. And we have to train our military to do it. We should probably have an IraqStat program, in which we measure how many people are going to school, how many factories are open, how many people are going back to work. We had to get into the nitty-gritty of putting an orderly society together in Iraq. It is not too late to do it. And I'd just like to ask, I'd just like to ask one question I didn't get to ask before, when you said, if General Petraeus comes back in September and reports that things aren't going well, what are we going to do? But suppose General Petraeus comes back in September and reports that things are going pretty well. Are we going to report that with the same amount of attention that we would report the negative news? (APPLAUSE) QUESTION: I know a business owner in northern New Hampshire who was on vacation in Spain last year for about three weeks. While he was there, he had to buy refills for prescription drugs, brand name drugs, and he discovered in buying those drugs that he could buy his refills there for $600 less than he could buy them here in New Hampshire. So since then, he said he is going to take a trip over to Spain and get his vacation paid for to buy his drugs. My question to you is, why is this? And if you are elected president, is there anything you would do to address it? VAUGHN: Mayor Giuliani? GIULIANI: What I would do is change the whole model that we have for health insurance in this country. The problem with our health insurance is, it's government and employer-dominated. People don't make individual choices. It's your health. You should own your health insurance. We should be giving you a major tax deduction, $15,000 for a family, so you can buy your own health insurance. If you buy health insurance for $8,000 or $9,000, you'll save $5,000 or $6,000 in tax- free money. Then we should have a health savings account, in which you can put some money aside to pay for your ordinary medical expenses. Health insurance should become like homeowners insurance or like car insurance. You don't cover everything on your homeowners policy. If you have a slight accident in your house, if you need to refill your oil with your car, you don't cover that with insurance. But that is covered in many of the insurance policies, because they're government-dominated and they're employer-dominated. What the Democrats suggested on this stage two nights ago was socialized medicine. There was a man in California who said to me, 'When we make health insurance free, just wait and see how expensive it will become. ' And the reality is that we need a free market. We need 100 million Americans making different decisions. It will bring down the cost of health insurance. It will bring down the cost of prescription medicines. Free-market principles are the only things that reduce costs and improve quality. Socialized medicine will ruin medicine in the United States. BLITZER: Thank you, Mayor. (APPLAUSE) BLITZER: Mayor Giuliani, what is the most pressing moral issue in America today? GIULIANI: I think the governor is correct. I would put it in maybe a slightly different way. We have great gifts in this country that come to us from God. We have a country in which we have freedom of religion, freedom of press, freedom for the individual, the right to elect our own officials. And the reality is that in some of the world, much of the world, that doesn't exist. And I think the challenge for our generation is going to be, are we able to share those gifts in an appropriate way with the rest of the world? If we can bring along the Middle East, if we can bring along those countries that are presently our enemies, and get them to see the values of these ideals, if we have the moral strength to be able to explain it to them in the way Ronald Reagan was able to do with communism, then we can end up having the peace that we want. And we should not -- we should never become pessimistic about this. Remember, this is the country that was at war with Vietnam just a short while ago. We're friends now.
BLITZER: All right.
GIULIANI: This was a country that was at war with Japan, Italy and Germany a generation ago. They're some of our best friends today. We have great resources in this country. And watching the strength of America when we believe in the essential ideals that we have -- they're not just American ideals; they come from God. And I think it's our moral obligation to find the right way to share that with the rest of the world.
BLITZER: If all of you will limit your answer to about 10 or 15 seconds, we'll go down the line, starting with Mayor Giuliani. What has been President Bush's biggest mistake since taking office? GIULIANI: I would like to add to what John is saying. The thing that I would do different is, I would establish accountability in Washington. Washington is a mess, and that's one of the reasons Republicans lost. Republicans became Democrats. I would establish programs like I did in New York City, where I had to deal with a heavily Democratic city: FedStat program to measure accountability. You get what you measure; if you don't measure success, you have failure. And I turned around New York City; I can turn around Washington. (APPLAUSE) BLITZER: Mayor Giuliani, are you comfortable with what Congressman Tancredo says about immigration to this country? GIULIANI: No. I'm very uncomfortable with it. I mean, the reality is, it's one thing to be debating illegal immigration. It's a very complex subject. I think we've had a very good debate about it. And I think the bill needs to be fixed in the way that I've indicated. But we shouldn't be having a debate about legal immigration. Abraham Lincoln defined what an American is better than I'm going to be able to do it or Congressman Tancredo or anyone on this stage. Abraham Lincoln, who fought the Know-Nothing movement, said, 'Being an American is not whether you came over on the Mayflower or you came here yesterday. 'How much do you believe in freedom? How much do you believe in freedom of religion? How much do you believe in freedom for women? How much do you believe in the right to vote? How much do you believe in the rule of law? 'The person who believes in that the most is the best American. And the person who doesn't isn't an American. ' BLITZER: Thank you.
GIULIANI: And that's Abraham Lincoln's words. We should always be open to legal immigration. It reforms us. It makes us better. It brings us people who want to make a better live for themselves. . .
BLITZER: Thank you.
GIULIANI: . . . and their families. If we lose that, we lose the genius that has made America what it is. (APPLAUSE) BLITZER: Thank you. Mayor, I want you to respond specifically to what we've heard from Congressman Hunter.
GIULIANI: I think, ma'am, the way to accomplish what you want is to nominate me. (LAUGHTER) That would be the way to do it. And I think the Republican Party can unite around two major principles that are being than all of us: being on offense against terrorism -- unlike the Democrats, who are on defense against terrorism. And you saw that two nights ago here. They couldn't even utter the words 'Islamic terrorism. ' It's our biggest enemy. They couldn't utter it. We need somebody who can stand up to that. And second, someone who'll be on offense for a growth economy -- fight this impulse to raise taxes, do socialized medicine. . .
BLITZER: Thank you.
GIULIANI: . . . put everything in government. Those are the two big principles that unite us and make us the majority party.
BLITZER: Thank you.
GIULIANI: And we have to respect some of our differences. (APPLAUSE)
2. I will end illegal immigration, secure our borders, and identify every non-citizen in our nation 3. I will restore fiscal discipline and cut wasteful Washington spending 4. I will cut taxes and reform the tax code 5. I will impose accountablitiy on Washington 6. I will lead America towards energy independence 7. I will give Americans more control over and access to health care with affordable and porable free-market solutions 8. I will increase adoptions, decrease abortions, and protect the quality of life for our children 9. I will reform the legal system and appoint strict constructionist judges 10. I will ensure that every community in America is prepared for terrorist attacks and natural disasters 11. I will provide access to a quality education to every child in America by giving real school choice to parents 12. I will expand America's involvement in the global economy and strengthen our reputation around the world
Sam Brownback
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