Mike Gravel

Transcript: Mike Gravel during the third Democratic 2008 presidential primary debate (June 28, 2007) (the All-American Presidential Forum on PBS moderated by Tavis Smiley held at Howard University in Washington, DC)

MR. GRAVEL: First off, let me thank the organizers. This is the fairest debate or forum that we’ve had thus far this year.

Let me add that racism was here with us at the beginning of this country. It was here in the last century, and it’s going to be with us in the 21st century. And one of the areas that touches me the most and enrages me the most is our war on drugs that this country has been putting forth for the last generation.

In 1972, we had 179,000 human beings in jail in this country; today, it’s 2.3 million, and 70 percent are black, African-Americans. (Light applause.) And I hope my colleagues will join me in standing up and saying, like FDR did with Prohibition, 'We’ll do away with that.' And FDR did it. And if I’m president, I will do away with the war on drugs, which does nothing but savage our inner cities and put our children at risk. (Applause.)

There’s no reason for this. There’s not an American that doesn’t understand the culture and the understanding that Prohibition was a failure, and so we repeat it again like we repeated Iraq after we had the failure of Vietnam. When will we learn? When we learn that the issue of drugs is a public health issue. Addiction is a public health issue, not a criminal issue where we throw people in jail and criminalize them to no advancement to the people -- (applause) -- and if there’s one group of people in this country that needs to face up to that problem, and we have to face up to it, and that is the African American community. (Applause.)

MR. WICKHAM: Thank you, Tavis. This question is about the link between education and poverty. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, in 2006 the unemployment rate of black high school graduates -- black high school graduates -- was 33 percent higher than the unemployment rate for white high school dropouts. To what do you attribute this inequity, which keeps many black families locked in the grip of poverty?

MR. GRAVEL: Dennis, you’re a little too modest on that. I think we can cut a little more than 15 percent, very much so. Stop and think what the opportunity costs -- now, you have heard these nostrums before. I’ve been watching your heads. You’re nodding on all the programs. You’ve heard it 10 years ago, you’ve heard 20 years ago -- why doesn’t it change? The Democratic Party hasn’t done appreciably better than the Republican Party in solving these problems. It has to be solved the people, not by your leaders. (Applause.)

Stop and think. When he’s talking about the money we’re squandering -- 21 million Americans could have a four-year college scholarship for the money we’ve squandered in Iraq -- (applause) -- 7.6 million teachers could have been hired last year if we weren’t squandering this money. Now, how do you think we got into this problem? The people on this stage, like the rest of us, are all guilty and very guilty, and we should recognize that, because there is linkage! (Cheers, applause.)

MS. MARTIN: Thank you, Tavis. Good evening, Governor. Good evening, candidates. I’m sure you’ll agree there are a lot of beautiful young people out here in the audience today, and we’re very pleased to be here at Howard University. So you can imagine how disturbed we were to find out from the Centers for Disease Control that African-Americans, though 17 percent of all American teenagers, they are 69 percent of the population of teenagers diagnosed with HIV/AIDS. Governor and candidates, what is the plan to stop and to protect these young people from this scourge?

MR. GRAVEL: I touched on it earlier. The scourge of our present society, particularly in the African-American community, is the war on drugs. I’ll repeat again as a challenge to my colleagues on this stage, that if they really want to do something about the inner cities, if they really want to do something about what’s happening to the health of the African-American community, it’s time to end this war.

There’s no reason to continue it in the slightest. All it does is create criminals out of people who are not criminals.

Education? Yes. Health care? Yes. But understand that the health care that we’re talking about, by and large, is going backwards, going backwards. We’re subsidizing the insurance companies. And all the plans that I’ve heard of, except Dennis’s, is a continued subsidization of the insurance companies.

Please, put pressure on these people to step up and end this war on drugs, which is ravishing your community. (Applause.)

MR. NAVARRETTE: Thank you, Tavis. This week billionaire Warren Buffett said that the very wealthy aren’t taxed nearly enough. In fact, he noted -- (applause) -- in fact, he noted that he’s taxed at a lower rate than some of his employees, who earn much less. Do you agree that the rich aren’t paying their fair share of taxes? And if so, what would you do about it?

MR. GRAVEL: I want to say that none of you are going to live in your lifetime to see our system of taxation change, based upon what you’ve heard here. I was -- (laughter) -- I was eight years on the Finance Committee -- none of them have served on that committee -- and I’ll tell you, the code stands that high and there’s not a human being alive that understands it.

And it’s with Democrats, with Republicans, they take care of the people. Do you think it’s accident that all of a sudden we wake up, that the wealthy aren’t paying a fair share? The only way they’re going to pay a fair share is wipe out the income tax -- it is corrupt, it’s corrupting our society -- (applause) -- and begin to put in place a tax that everybody will know what everybody’s paying, and that’s a retail sales tax. And you can make it as progressive as you want. Keep in mind, a tax where everybody will know what everybody is paying.

MR. SMILEY: Senator Gravel, thanks.

MR. GRAVEL: You won’t see it with this.

MR. WICKHAM: Okay. Okay, please stay with me on this one. According to FBI data, blacks were roughly 29 percent of persons arrested in this country between 1996 and 2005. Whites were 70 percent of people arrested during this period. Yet at the end of this 10-year period, whites were 40 percent of those who were inmates in this country, and blacks were approximately 38 percent. What does this data suggest to you?

MR. GRAVEL: Is it a surprise to anybody in this room that if you don’t have any money, you don’t get any justice? (Laughter.) Is that a surprise to you all? (Applause.) My gracious, the only way you’re going to get justice is to turn around and empower yourselves to become lawmakers so you can change the system, and there’s no thought of really changing the system today. It’s politics as usual. (Applause.)

MS. MARTIN: Okay. The question is, would you support a federal law guaranteeing the right to return to New Orleans and other Gulf regions devastated by Hurricane Katrina, based on the United Nations human rights standards governing the internal displacement of citizens -- and I can go further -- that includes the requirement that authorities establish conditions and provides the means to allow internally displaced persons to return voluntarily in safety and dignity?

MR. GRAVEL: The answer to the question is yes. And just keep in mind, if we weren’t squandering our treasure on this terrible war that we didn’t have to start, we would have 4 million housing units available, and a good portion of them could go to Katrina residents. (Applause.)

MR. NAVARRETTE: A lot of Americans are concerned with outsourcing of U.S. jobs. Most corporations, I think it’s fair to say, don’t share that concern. In fact, they argue that we’re living in a global economy and Americans have to compete in that environment. Which side are you on? And if you agree that outsourcing is a problem, what’s your solution?

MR. GRAVEL: No, outsourcing is not the problem. What is the problem is our trade agreements that we have that benefit the management and, of course, the shareholders, and have neglected on either side of the issue, whether it’s in Mexico or in other countries or the United States. That’s the problem that must be addressed.

So, no, it’s not outsourcing. But I would add to it, it’s the way all of these people want to finance health care, on the backs of businesses, that make them uncompetitive in the world. That’s part of the problem. And our system of taxation is also part of the problem because it makes us uncompetitive in the world.

MR. WICKHAM: This question is about Darfur. This is the second time that our nation has had a chance to do something about genocide in Africa. The first came in Rwanda in 1994, when we did nothing as more than a half a million people were slaughtered there. What does this country’s unwillingness to move aggressively to end the slaughters that take place in Darfur today -- what does it say about our claim to moral leadership?

MR. GRAVEL: It’s very simple. If we have a president, he has to have moral judgment.

AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (Off mike) -- mike --

MR. GRAVEL: What? No mike? You can’t hear me?

AUDIENCE MEMBERS: No.

MR. GRAVEL: You can hear me now? We have to have a president who has moral judgment. Most of the people on this stage with me do not have that judgment, and have proven it by the simple fact of what they’ve done. (Laughter.)

Read Mike Gravel's transcript from the first primary debate here

Read Mike Gravel's transcript from the second primary debate here

2008 Democratic Candidates:

Joe Biden
Hillary Clinton
Christopher Dodd
John Edwards
Mike Gravel
Dennis Kucinich
Barack Obama
Bill Richardson