John Edwards

Transcript: John Edwards during the second Democratic 2008 presidential primary debate (June 03, 2007) in New Hampshire

BLITZER: Senator Edwards, let me let you clarify what you said the other day. You said the war on terror is a bumper sticker, not a plan. With the news yesterday, this alleged plot at JFK which could have done, supposedly, horrendous damage and caused an incredible number of casualties, do you believe the U.S. is not at war with terrorists?

JOHN EDWARDS, FMR SEN. (D) NORTH CAROLINA: I reject this bumper sticker, Wolf. And that's exactly what it is. It's a bumper sticker.

As president of the United States, I will do absolutely everything to find terrorists where they are, to stop them before they can do harm to us, before they can do harm to America or to its allies.

Every tool available -- military alliances, intelligence -- I will use.

But what this global war on terror bumper sticker -- political slogan, that's all it is, all it's ever been -- was intended to do was for George Bush to use it to justify everything he does: the ongoing war in Iraq, Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, spying on Americans, torture.

None of those things are OK. They are not the United States of America.

Senator Edwards, where, if at all, do you disagree with any of your Democratic colleagues -- Democratic candidates -- on this issue of the troops, the funding of the war, how to get out?

EDWARDS: Well, I think it's the difference between leading and following.

I think Hillary's right. All of us do want to end this war. But I have made very clear from the outset that the way to end the war is for the Congress to use its constitutional authority to fund. They should send a bill to the president with a timetable for withdrawal, which they did.

The president vetoed. And then it came back. And then it was the moment of truth.

And I said throughout the lead-up to this vote that I was against a funding bill that did not have a timetable for withdrawal, that it was critical for the Congress to stand firm. They were given a mandate by the American people.

And others on this stage -- Chris Dodd spoke out very loudly and clearly. But I want to finish this -- others did not. Others were quiet. They went quietly to the floor of the Senate, cast the right vote. But there is a difference between leadership and legislating.

BLITZER: You want to name names?

EDWARDS: No, I think it's obvious who I'm talking about.

BLITZER: It is to me, but it might not be to some of the viewers out there.

EDWARDS: Senator Clinton and Senator Obama did not say anything about how they were going to vote until they appeared on the floor of the Senate and voted. They were among the last people to vote. And I think that the importance of this is -- they cast the right vote, and I applaud them for that. But the importance of this is, they're asking to be president of the United States.

And there is a difference between making clear, speaking to your followers, speaking to the American people about what you believe needs to be done. And I think all of us have a responsibility to lead on these issues, not just on Iraq, but on health care, on energy, on all the other issues.

BLITZER: Let me let Senator Edwards respond. Are the differences minor between you and these Democratic candidates?

EDWARDS: There are differences between us. And I think Democratic voters deserve to know the differences between us.

I think there is a difference between making very clear, when the crucial moment comes, on Congress ending this war, what your position is, and standing quiet. That's all I'm saying.

BLITZER: All right.

EDWARDS: They eventually voted the right way. I respect them for voting the right way. But there are important differences between us on this. And the voters are entitled to know that.

BLITZER: Senator Edwards, you didn't read that national intelligence estimate either. Do you regret that?

EDWARDS: No, actually, I think that I would agree with some of what Hillary just said. I think it's true that I was on the Intelligence Committee -- and I don't think Senator Clinton was, but I was on the Intelligence Committee. I received direct information from that. I met with former high-level people in the Clinton administration who gave me additional information. And I read the summary of the NIE.

I think I had the information I needed. I don't think that was the question.

I think one difference we do have is I think I was wrong. I should never have voted for this war.

And this goes to the issue that Senator Obama raised a few minutes ago. He deserves credit for being against this war from the beginning. He was right. I was wrong.

(APPLAUSE)

And I think it is important for anybody who seeks to be the next president of the United States, given the dishonesty that we've been faced with over the last several years, to be honest to the country.

We have to re-establish trust between the American people and the president.

BLITZER: All right.

EDWARDS: And that's going to require any of us who want to be president to be open and honest with the American people.

Senator Edwards, question for you, sir. I was struck by your conversation that you had a moment ago about dishonesty in politics, and wanting to make things clear. This is a health care question for you, and really focusing on price tags here. Governor Richardson, for example, says that you can fund health care meaningfully without raising taxes. Senator Clinton has said that she's not prepared to say she will raises taxes to reform health care. Your plan does raise some taxes to fund your universal health care program. So I am wondering: From your perspective, are they being honest about the true costs of universal health care in America?

EDWARDS: Let me say, first, I think it's a very healthy thing that we have Democrats coming out with health care plans. This country's health care system is completely dysfunctional. I am proud of the fact that I was the first person to come out with a specific, truly universal health care plan.

Senator Obama came out with a plan just a few days ago, which I don't believe is completely universal, but he deserves to be credited because he laid out what the cost is, and exactly how he was going to pay for it.

I do believe that -- and by the way, you didn't say this, but my plan costs $90 billion to $120 billion a year.

I'd pay for it by getting rid of Bush's tax cuts for people who make over $200,000 a year.

And I believe you cannot cover everybody in America, create a more efficient health care system, cover the cracks, you know, getting rid of things like pre-existing conditions and making sure that mental health is treated the same as physical health, I don't think you can do all those things for nothing. That's not the truth.

And I think people have been so sick of listening to politicians who come and say, 'We're going to give you universal health care. We're going to change the way we use energy in America. We're going to strengthen the middle class, have middle class tax cuts, and, in the process, we're going to eliminate the federal deficit.'

BLITZER: Thank you.

EDWARDS: That is not the truth. And we need to be honest with people about that.

BLITZER: I'm going to move onto the next question.

EDWARDS: Can I just say -- just 15 seconds on it?

BLITZER: I'll let Senator Edwards, and then, Congressman Kucinich -- I've got a specific question for Congressman Kucinich. But go ahead.

EDWARDS: OK. I'll be very quick. I think it is very important, though, to understand -- I think Senator Obama was very honest just now.

We have a threshold question about whether we're going to have truly universal care. The New Republic has estimated that his plan will leave about 15 million people uncovered. He says he will do something about that later.

I believe that unless we have a law requiring that every man, woman and child in America be covered, we're going to have millions of people who aren't covered.

Secondly -- secondly -- all the savings that Senator Clinton just talked about are in my plan, and they're in Senator Obama's plan.

And both of us have recognized that it's going to cost significant money and we've talked about how we're going to pay for it.

BLITZER: Senator Edwards, I want you to weigh in on a related question. The governor of New Hampshire is here with us tonight. He just signed legislation into law in this state allowing civil unions. There are... (APPLAUSE) All right. Let's try to keep the applause down. The question is this: Is it time to move beyond that and let gays and lesbians get married?

EDWARDS: Well, first of all, I think what the governor did and what New Hampshire's done is a great example for the rest of the country. Not only civil unions, but all the partnership benefits, including, Senator Clinton talked about getting rid of this 'don't ask/don't tell' policy.

I don't think the federal government has a role in telling either states or religious institutions, churches, what marriages they can bless and can't bless. I think the state of New Hampshire ought to be able to make that decision for itself, like every other state in the country. I think every church ought to be able to make that decision for itself.

And I think it's very important that we stand up against intolerance and against discrimination.

But I want to add one thing on something that Governor Richardson sad, because it's been a tone of everything that's been discussed here today. The place that I differ with Senator Biden, Senator Clinton, and I guess, to some extent, Senator Obama, and I agree with Governor Richardson -- it is the job of the president of the United States not to legislate but to lead.

BLITZER: All right.

EDWARDS: And voters need to ask themselves who's most likely to end the war in Iraq; who's most likely to lead on health care...

BLITZER: All right...

EDWARDS: ... who's most likely to lead on immigration, which is what you just asked about.

( What would you do right now to reduce the price of gasoline? ) BLITZER: Senator Edwards?

EDWARDS: The first thing we got to do is find out what's happening with these oil and gas companies. Because we know they're making record amounts of money. We know that the same people that are refining the oil are selling it at the gas pump. So there's a huge vertical integration in this operation.

I think there ought to be an investigation of the oil and gas companies by the Justice Department. I think if the laws that presently exist don't deal with this problem and price manipulation, there should be some change in the anti-trust laws. I think we need states to enforce clean air laws against these refineries.

And then I guess last but not least in the short term -- Chris is exactly right about the things we need to be doing in the long term. But in the short term, can America finally stop spending $3 billion a year of taxpayers' money subsidizing oil and gas companies that already make billions of dollars? That's what we ought to be doing.

BLITZER: Senator Edwards, how far would you go, if necessary, to stop Iran from building a nuclear bomb?

EDWARDS: Well, let me -- can I be more specific?

I think that, beyond just talking about diplomacy, if you lived in Iran, you know that the Iranian people actually rallied for America on the streets of Tehran, after September the 11th.

And there's a long history of pro-American sentiment in Iran. There is an extraordinary opportunity available to us on Iran. And there's a very clear path, from my perspective.

They have a president who's politically unpopular. The people are in a different place. He hasn't done what he promised to do, Ahmadinejad, when he was elected president.

We don't have economic leverage over the Iranians. But the Europeans do. The European banking system does. We should put two options on the table. One, carrots: we'll make the nuclear fuel available to you, the international community, but we'll control it; you can't nuclearize -- you can't weaponize it.

Second, we're going to put a clear set of economic incentives on the table.

And the Iranian people need to hear this.

BLITZER: All right.

EDWARDS: It needs to be not behind closed doors.

Just 10 more seconds.

And then the alternative -- the stick -- is if they don't do that, there are going to be serious economic sanctions.

We need to drive a wedge between the Iranian people and this radical leader.

BLITZER: But you're saying only economic sanctions, not a military threat that should be on the table. Is that what you're saying?

EDWARDS: I think this is the clear path. I think no president -- no responsible president -- would ever take any option off the table.

BLITZER: All right. We're going to go on to the next question, from Jennifer. Senator Edwards, you really want to weigh in.

EDWARDS: I just wanted to answer the original question that was asked, which was, how do you reconcile Musharraf being in power with our ideas of a liberal democracy?

And I think one of the things we have seen, during the course of the Bush administration, is America is not for any possible kind of democracy, we're for democracies that respect the rights of minorities, that actually respect civil rights and individual liberties.

And one danger that anyone has to recognize with the possible taking down of Musharraf as the president of Pakistan -- and I met with him also in Islamabad a few years ago -- one of the things we have to recognize is if he goes out of power, given the power of radical Islam in Pakistan, there's absolutely no way to know what kind of government will take its place.

EDWARDS: Actually, I disagree with my friend, Chris Dodd, about that. I think that we should use whatever tools available to us.

And I have to say to Senator Biden, Governor Richardson, I applaud their being so vocal and out there on this issue. It's enormously important.

But I think all of us recognize that this is a piece of a bigger puzzle, which is America no longer has the moral authority to lead in the world.

Watching a genocide continue has contributed to that, but it is not the only thing. The spread of HIV/AIDS, I think America ought to actually lead an effort to make primary school education available to 100 million children in the world who desperately need it, including in Africa...

BLITZER: What is a 'rich person,' Senator Edwards?

EDWARDS: I don't know if I know what a rich person is. What I do for my health care plan is roll back the tax cuts for people who make over $200,000 a year. So $200,000 is the figure I use.

But I want to go to a piece of this question that you ask, which is, you talked about saving for your kids to be able to go to college. And we really haven't talked about that tonight. Just a quick idea.

College for everyone is something we've actually, Elizabeth and I, put in place in eastern North Carolina, in a small community in eastern North Carolina, and the idea is really simple. The idea is, if a kid graduates from high school qualified to be in college and they commit to work when they're there at least 10 hours a week, their tuition and books are paid for.

And the idea is, we want to make it simple for kids to go to college. They have to work for it. We don't just give it to them. And then, on top of that, so many young people are faced with this crushing burden of debt when they graduate from college. I think it's something we shouldn't just be doing -- we've done this privately in this small area of eastern North Carolina...

BLITZER: All right.

EDWARDS: ... but it's something we ought to be doing all across this country, college for everyone.

EDWARDS: To travel the world, re-establish America's -- I think my mike just came on -- re-establish America's moral authority in the world, which I think is absolutely crucial. The other things become less important and subservient.

We have huge issues here at home. We've talked about some of them tonight -- energy, global warming, what we do about the issue of health care in America, the poor, which we haven't talked about, unfortunately.

But, the single greatest responsibility of the next president is to travel the world, speak to the world about what real American values are -- equality, diversity -- and to lead an effort by America to re-establish our alliances around the world, which is going to require time and focus.

And then, third, to lead in taking action that demonstrates that America is strong but that America is also moral and just. And we're going to help other people in the world and we're going to demonstrate our commitment to humanity.

All those things...

BLITZER: All right.

EDWARDS: ... are crucial to re-establishing our moral authority.

Read John Edwards's transcript from the first primary debate here

2008 Democratic Candidates:

Joe Biden
Hillary Clinton
Christopher Dodd
John Edwards
Mike Gravel
Dennis Kucinich
Barack Obama
Bill Richardson