Bill Richardson

Transcript: Bill Richardson during the second Democratic 2008 presidential primary debate (June 03, 2007) in New Hampshire

BLITZER: Governor Richardson, I want Governor Richardson to weigh in because I know you have been very concerned about what is happening with the genocide in Darfur.

What if some of the critics, some of the supporters of this war, are right, and a unilateral, quick U.S. withdrawal from Iraq -- and you want troops out by the end of this year -- does lead not only to an increased civil war, but to genocide in Iraq?

BLITZER: What moral responsibility does the United States have to deal with that scenario?

GOV. BILL RICHARDSON (D) NEW MEXICO: I've spent a lot of time in this region. I was U.N. ambassador. Eighty percent of my time was spent on the Iraq issue. I've talked to the leaders there.

And there is a fundamental difference between my position and the position of my good friends here. I believe that it's a civil war. I believe that there is sectarian conflict already. There is enormous turmoil.

Seven Americans died today. This is what I would do. I would have a resolution under Article I to deauthorize the war, to move forward with a timetable, the end of this calendar year...

BLITZER: But what about genocide? What about the possibility of genocide?

RICHARDSON: ... no residual -- no residual forces.

I think there has to be pointed out a difference in our approach. Obviously, genocide is something in Darfur. You know, I have been involved in that issue.

RICHARDSON: I believe what we need to do there is stop this genocide. Why don't we care about Africa?

BLITZER: What about Iraq, if it were, God forbid, to happen?

RICHARDSON: Well, obviously, I would keep troops in Kuwait, where they are wanted. I would move them to Afghanistan to fight Al Qaida.

But I believe that our troops have become a target. Our troops right now have done a magnificent job.

And so what -- the difference between all of us here is this: All of these resolutions, the funding -- supplemental appropriation on funding, on issues relating to timetables is not working because the president is vetoing.

BLITZER: All right...

RICHARDSON: Let me finish.

The question is directed to Governor Richardson.

Governor Richardson, despite your doubts about the immigration bill pending in the Senate, you support granting legal status to roughly 12 million people who entered the United States illegally.

Why is this not an amnesty program?

RICHARDSON: I'm a border governor. Two years ago, I declared a border emergency because of the tremendous flow of drugs and illegal workers coming into my state.

I deal with this issue every day.

Here's my position: I would not support legislation that divided families; I would not support legislation that builds a wall, a Berlin-type wall, between two countries the way the bill in the Congress exists today. Now, what are the essential components of any good, sensible immigration bill?

One, increases border patrols; double the size of border patrols and technology. That makes sense. Don't reduce the National Guard that's there.

Secondly, an earned legalization program -- yes, I support that -- one that is based on learning English, paying back taxes, passing a background check, getting behind those that are trying to get here legally, obeying laws, embracing American values.

And then, lastly, finding ways that we penalize employers that knowingly hire illegal workers. That is essential in an immigration bill.

BLITZER: Let me get back to the question. Almost all of these 12 million illegal immigrants who are here would qualify for this new Z visa, which would make them legal residents of the United States. So here is the question: Why isn't this amnesty?

RICHARDSON: It isn't an amnesty...

BLITZER: Why?

RICHARDSON: ...because what this bill does is it sets standards, the standards that I mentioned: learning English, passing background checks. There is a touch-back provision. The head-of-household has to go back and then apply. I believe that is unworkable, too. It divides families. But you don't immediately get an amnesty. You don't immediately get citizenship. It is a process that takes about 13 years.

Now, I commend the Congress for facing up to having a legalization plan, but I will not support a bill -- our immigration laws in this country always bring families together. together.

This separates families.

BLITZER: All right.

RICHARDSON: There's also a provision -- this is important -- that involves -- that involves guest workers. They should have labor protections.

BLITZER: All right.

RICHARDSON: We don't want to create a permanent underclass in those workers.

BLITZER: All right. Governor Richardson, I want you to weigh in, and then I'll let Senator Dodd weigh in.

RICHARDSON: As governor of New Mexico, this is what we did. We insured every child under 5. My wife Barbara, who sits here, led an effort in the state to increase immunizations.

We got rid of junk food in schools. We brought mandatory phys ed...

BLITZER: But can you do national health care...

RICHARDSON: Yes, yes, you can. Here's how we do it.

BLITZER: ... universal health care, without raising taxes?

RICHARDSON: Yes. This is how we do it.

Number one: My plan is mandatory. You do have everybody sharing -- the employer, the employee -- you have the state and the federal government.

Secondly, I believe that we can have a plan where, if you were satisfied with your health care plan, you can keep it. No new bureaucracies. But, in addition to that, you focus on prevention. You allow everybody to get the congressional plan that every member here has.

BLITZER: Thank you.

RICHARDSON: You bring Medicare 55 and over...

BLITZER: All right.

RICHARDSON: That's what you do.

BLITZER: Let me just do a show of hands. If you think it's time to get rid of the 'don't ask/don't tell' policy in the U.S. military, raise you hands. (APPLAUSE) (CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: All of you agree on this.

Governor Richardson, go ahead.

RICHARDSON: I love all this parsing and senatorial courtesy and 'on the one hand, on the other hand.'

Here's what I would do. I would do what I did as governor of New Mexico. One, I would move in the Congress for a hate crimes law. I would have domestic partnerships. I would have civil unions. I would initiate laws that practice nondiscrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

I would get rid of 'don't ask/don't tell.' I voted against it as a congressman.

A president has to show leadership. And this country should not be asking a person who is giving up their life for this country and the military should not...

BLITZER: Thank you, Governor.

RICHARDSON: ... should not giving lecture on sexual orientation.

BLITZER: Governor Richardson, if you were president of the United States, the question is, what would you do with former President Bill Clinton? (LAUGHTER)

RICHARDSON: Well, the ideal job for President Clinton would be secretary general of the United States. But that's probably not doable.

What I would do is -- President Clinton gave me, although I don't think he's very happy with me now -- President Clinton gave me two great jobs. He gave me ambassador to the United Nations, secretary of energy.

I believe he is needed in the Middle East. This administration has not had a Middle East peace envoy as other bipartisan administrations have had.

We have serious problems in the Middle East. Our great ally Israel, which I think needs buttressing, right now is less safe than it was when President Bush came in.

We need a constant Middle East peace process. President Clinton gave me two good jobs. I want to pay him back and make a Middle East peace envoy.

BLITZER: Governor Richardson, you're a former secretary of energy. Are the oil companies -- the big oil companies engaged in price- gouging of the American consumer?

RICHARDSON: Well, I was energy secretary and my state -- we call it the Clean Energy state. We have incentives for solar, wind, biomass, biofuels. We require renewable technologies, 20 percent of our electricity.

Here's my answer: What would help in the short term, give us -- the states -- the authority to engage in serious price-gouging investigation. That doesn't happen. But this is not the answer. The answer...

BLITZER: Do you believe they are?

RICHARDSON: No, they're not.

The answer is this. We need an Apollo program, Apollo, led by a president, asking every American to sacrifice, to conserve, that would reduce our dependence on foreign oil, which is 65 percent imported, to 10.

I have the most aggressive plan, according to the League of Conservation Voters.

BLITZER: All right.

RICHARDSON: It would go to 80 percent, 80 percent reduction in greenhouse gas emissions.

BLITZER: Thank you...

RICHARDSON: ... by the year 2040. But it takes...

BLITZER: Hold on, Governor.

RICHARDSON: ... an effort by every American.

BLITZER: I'm going to let Senator Biden weigh in as well. What would you do specifically, Senator Biden -- give it to us briefly -- to reduce, if you want to reduce, the price of gasoline in the United States?

RICHARDSON: Take away the subsidy which I've introduced legislation to do. It's about $6 billion, $2.7 directly to the oil companies, number one.

Number two, investigate, as president of the United States; use the Justice Department to go in an investigate this whole issue of price-gouging.

Number three, we have to do what we all said here, but, first and foremost, significantly raise the mileage automobiles get and mandate it.

RICHARDSON: Well, I disagree. Under my health care plan, if you have served this country -- enlisted, a veteran -- I would give you under my health care plan, your husband, a hero's health card so that your husband could get health care anywhere they want, with any doctor, with any hospital. (APPLAUSE)

Our system right now, our V.A. system, is good, but we have to offer our veterans that choice. Some have to go 150 miles, especially in rural areas.

I would also do something else in terms of veterans health care. What we have in our V.A. system is cost-of-living increases for other benefits, but not for V.A. health care. And today a lot of our vets coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan, PTSD, mental health. We cannot do enough to help them. And it's critically important that we have a well-funded V.A. system.

BLITZER: All right.

RICHARDSON: As president, I would make sure that the V.A. health system is funded and we say thanks to those that have served our country.

RICHARDSON: Well, I was there... (APPLAUSE)

CLINTON: I think that's...

RICHARDSON: But I was there.

BLITZER: Governor, would you use force to save people in Darfur?

RICHARDSON: No, what I would do -- and I was there. I got a very fragile cease-fire put together there, three months ago.

And we made things a little better. I want with the Save Darfur Coalition.

This is what I would do. Number one, more U.N. peacekeepers. The government is refusing to make this happen.

Secondly, economic sanctions. We've imposed them, but they're weak. We need European countries to make them happen.

Third, we need China, to lean on China, which has enormous leverage over Darfur. And if the Chinese don't want to do this, we say to them, maybe we won't go to the Olympics. And lastly, what we need is a country, a foreign policy that cares about Africa, that cares that 300,000 human beings have died, have been massacred, that over 2 million have lost their homes.

BLITZER: All right.

RICHARDSON: Gender-based violence, rape. America should care about Africa, and we don't. (CROSSTALK) (APPLAUSE)

BLITZER: I want to go back to Jennifer, but I have to ask Governor Richardson, you're a former ambassador at the United Nations, and what I hear you saying, what you're saying is that you would consider the United States boycotting the Summer Olympic Games in China unless China starts getting tough with the government in Sudan.

RICHARDSON: Yes, I would. Because China purchases a lot of their oil -- most of it, a good part of it -- from Sudan.

And my view is that they are a leverage point. And they have not been strong on the Sudan.

We don't need, Joe -- with all due respect -- another military involvement. Iraq is enough. And we must get out of Iraq.

What we need to do is move forward with the toughest options. Am I for a no-fly zone? Yes. I think we need strong economic sanctions. And we lack the moral authority to build international coalitions, to fight genocide in Darfur. We should shut down -- I would as first day as president, I would shut down Guantanamo. I would shut down Abu Ghraib and secret prisons. That is the moral authority that we don't have.

QUESTION: Our country's now running huge federal deficits again. I'm wondering, one, do the candidates have a problem with that? And if they do, what policies would they pursue, if they became president, to alleviate that problem?

And if you could be somewhat specific. Would you be looking for the income side, and what would those policies be, or would you be looking to the spending side, and talk a little bit about those policies. Thank you.

BLITZER: Governor Richardson?

RICHARDSON: Well, I'm a governor. I have balanced five budgets. I have to as a governor. In the Clinton administration -- I want to thank the senator for her nice words -- we had a balanced budget and created 20 million jobs. This is what I would do: $100 million from the war in Iraq spent on domestic needs. Number two, I am for a constitutional amendment to balance the budget, a line-item veto and pay-as-you-go policies. I would get rid of the close to $30 billion earmarks that the Congress has.

I would also get rid of corporate welfare, close to $70 billion. For instance, if you're a company, you get a tax credit -- a runaway tax credit -- to take jobs overseas.

I would also find ways to let insurance companies have cost controls, strong cost controls to reduce the deficit.

I would also take other steps and say that it is critically important that we also grow the economy. I'm a pro-growth Democrat. I believe if we grow the economy, for instance, this -- the two daughters of the young man, the young father over there. If we grow the economy 1.8 percent instead of the 1.3, the solvency of Social Security in the year 2045 would be resolved.

And I would be a president who would give incentives to companies that bring jobs over the prevailing wage, rural tax credits...

BLITZER: Thank you.

RICHARDSON: ... ways that we help the economy grow in the technology sector.

RICHARDSON: Nobody's talked about your profession, education.

I would upgrade our schools. I would have preschool for every American, full-day kindergarten.

I would pay our teachers what they deserve. I'd have a minimum wage for our teachers, $40,000. I did that in New Mexico. We went from 49th to 29th.

I would bring science and math academies to get America more competitive. I would emphasize the arts. I would emphasize civics. Again, science and math.

I would have universal education...

BLITZER: Thank you.

RICHARDSON: ... available for every American.

2008 Democratic Candidates:

Joe Biden
Hillary Clinton
Christopher Dodd
John Edwards
Mike Gravel
Dennis Kucinich
Barack Obama
Bill Richardson